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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been running the AVON 250/40R18 on the rear of my bike. I have been loosing A LOT of air so I started to look for the problem. (I have been loosing a little air for awhile but not enough for it to bother me)

I did not even have to pull the wheel cause the problem(s) were so obvious! Every single tread on the left side of the tire has a split :( I am curious if others running the 250 AVON have the same problem or is my tire unique? I have to make a decision FAST on what the replacement tire will be - need the bike ready for Biketoberfest. Is my tire just a bad tire OR are the splits from too many burnouts (torque pulling the rubber sideways causing the tears)?

Here are a couple pictures ...



CLOSEUP SHOT:


Opinions, advice even critisism is welcome! (I know AVON does not recomend the use of this tire) :eek:
 

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Hi V-Man, From what I've learned. The only motorcycle style tire rated for the Boss Hoss 2 wheeler is the Avon 230.

The reason being, The Torque/Horsepower output of the Engine. The 230 is rated for 225 RWHP , If you put out more then that, Then the compound takes over and brakes traction.

I know many of you out there are running the Avon 250 and the
Metzler 280. Sure they look good. And if you just putt around on them they may be OK. But their side wall's are not rated for the power of the Boss Hoss. And with the softer compound it really stresses those side walls. And these pictures proove it.

This is just a suggestion, If you are running one of those tires. Please keep a close eye on it. If you see anything unusual with the tread or side walls. Get it off of your Bike.

If you want a wider tire with better traction to handle the Torque and Horsepower. Then you'll need to get a Car style tire.

I feel Busa Dave has found the 18" tire to do the job.
 

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Vman

I had the same problem with my 250 Avon. Only the cracks were in the sidewall. It leaked couple of pounds a day from day one. It had only about 2k miles on it . I replaced it with a new 250 Avon and so far it is holding pressure.
Milos
 

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Just wanted to add-on to Carb-Mike's post. I spoke to the Avon factory reps at Daytona a couple of years ago about a few topics and this was one of them. They could not strongly enough emphasize to me the dangers of running any of their tires on the Boss Hoss, other than the 230. It was a torque issue on the sidewall just as Mike described.

V-Man, maybe they are working on something new, or they could direct you in some way that will work with your 18" wheel? I would contact them directly.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks all ...

Mike

I found a thread where Tim (Grumpy) swapped to a Sumitomo HRZ2 ( 265/35/18 ) and Dave (Busa Dave) looks like he settled on a Michelin Pilot ( 265/40/18 ). I will look into both these tires tomorrow when I am less tired! I do want traction but I also want to be able to light the tire too :) . Daves choice maybe too sticky for my application ... he's making twice the power as I am!

Milos

How is the second AVON holding up? How many miles do you have on it and how hard have you ridden the new tire? Haven't seen you around anywhere - you been hiding?

Bill

I've had the same conversation with AVON reps in the past. I tried to convince them to build a tire for the Boss but it did not sound promising when we spoke. :? I may contact them and see if anything has changed ... fingers crossed but I doubt it!


PS
When I "preview" my post it shows a "sunglass" smiley? It should be the number "18".
 

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Vman, the tire is holding up good. No leaks so far. I was told that sometimes that when Avon make their tires that the "curing" maybe a problem. Something about taking the tires of the line too soon??. I am riding the bike the same way as before. I don't push as hard as some of you crazies do. hahahaha. But I still get on it hard when getting on the hiway. Some "accidental" burnouts here and there but still oki doki.
Yeah, I have been hiding. hahahha. I picked up a Honda V65 Magno (1983) which, right off the factory floor, is capable of 10.8 second 1/4 mile times. But, it sure don't have the kick that the BOSS has. I was told by others that the V65 would keep up with the boss but no way in hell! Still, the V65 is a better bike for around town riding. The Boss is super for long distance and the pure "wow" factor. I can ride the V65 "incognito" so to speak and that at times is a plus cause I get tired of all those same stupid questions about the Boss (wow, nice harley, I hate to pick it up when dropped, what is it, how much HP etc).
See ya
Milos
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I've made a decision for replacement rubber. After talking with a few dealers and banging my head in the wall
I've decided to try out the Metzlers. I'm NOT going to the 280 because I think I will have the same torque issues and I remember from a reliable source that the 280 just doesn't look right without a widened wheel. I'll be ordering a ME880 240/40VR18 for the rear and a ME880 130/70HB18 for the front. I plan to keep a close eye on the rubber and see how it holds up to the stresses of the Boss :roll: Hopefully they will do well ... I'll post more when I get some miles on them and a few "smokies"


Milos - The Magna is a fun bike ... it's quick but not even close to the Boss. It is a bike you can ride without being bombarded with questions and looks though :wink: Enjoy! Probably see you around a bike event this winter ... someplace.
 

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V-MAN said:
Well I've made a decision for replacement rubber. After talking with a few dealers and banging my head in the wall
I've decided to try out the Metzlers. I'm NOT going to the 280 because I think I will have the same torque issues and I remember from a reliable source that the 280 just doesn't look right without a widened wheel. I'll be ordering a ME880 240/40VR18 for the rear and a ME880 130/70HB18 for the front. I plan to keep a close eye on the rubber and see how it holds up to the stresses of the Boss :roll: Hopefully they will do well ... I'll post more when I get some miles on them and a few "smokies"


Milos - The Magna is a fun bike ... it's quick but not even close to the Boss. It is a bike you can ride without being bombarded with questions and looks though :wink: Enjoy! Probably see you around a bike event this winter ... someplace.
Your decision--your life just remember that the outside of a tire is neither an accurate nor a reliable means to attempt to predict when a catastrophic failure will occur. The wear that you cannot see on the inside of the tire also speaks volumes about the condition of the tire. If you want the big bad boy look go with something that is rated for the bike! JMHO but you could not pay me to run one of those tires on my bike—but then again you may not push the limits like I do. Just be careful and make smart decisions. It costs money to replace the wheel and tire but now I do not worry about not making it home in one piece at least with respect to the tire. :biker3:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Busa Dave said:
Your decision--your life just remember that the outside of a tire is neither an accurate nor a reliable means to attempt to predict when a catastrophic failure will occur. The wear that you cannot see on the inside of the tire also speaks volumes about the condition of the tire. If you want the big bad boy look go with something that is rated for the bike! JMHO but you could not pay me to run one of those tires on my bike—but then again you may not push the limits like I do. Just be careful and make smart decisions. It costs money to replace the wheel and tire but now I do not worry about not making it home in one piece at least with respect to the tire. :biker3:
Dave
I most absolutely understand the exterior condition of the tire is only one aspect as to the true state of that tire. I also recognize that even if I had access to equipment to see the inside of the tire that condition could change from 100% sound to complete failure moments later. My point of posting these pictures was to show my AVON 250 and its condition. I wanted to see if anybody else had seen the same problem. I do like the FAT look and I push my bike as far as I am comfortable pushing it but not 200+MPH. If I wanted to run 200 MPH I would not have chosen a Boss Hoss because there are much more capable bikes out there far safer at those speeds! I also understand "It costs money to replace the wheel and tire" as you stated. I’m not sure what anybody else spent for their 18” wheel setups but I can tell you I have over 6K invested in wheels and tires. I chose the Metzlers because they seem to have a good track record talking with a multitude of dealers that have installed and run hundreds of sets over the years!
 

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Understood—I have had numerous conversations with, including the Director of Racing Development at Michelin as well as engineering people at Goodyear and the Engineer here who I have worked with over the years developing tires for the aircraft we build. To a man they all stated that they would not run the “non qualified” tires on their bikes because of the potential for a catastrophic failure. When a tire that was designed for much less weight and hp is run at temperature on our bikes it is not a matter of if their will be a problem but when. Personally, I value my life enough to do the due diligence in this area with people who know what they are talking about rather than someone who has a vested interest in selling me a tire. If you have spent as much money as you say on tires and wheels then you should have not only something that looks good but performs without the nagging thought of “will it blow during this burn out”.

Last week when I left TBH going about 20 with a cool tire twisted the throttle all the way on the Shafiroff Racing 540 until the shift light came on at 6300 and left a cloud of smoke that Curtis (owner of TBH) said covered the building! :cop2: I love doing that too much to worry abut tires. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Busa Dave said:
Understood—I have had numerous conversations with, including the Director of Racing Development at Michelin as well as engineering people at Goodyear and the Engineer here who I have worked with over the years developing tires for the aircraft we build. To a man they all stated that they would not run the “non qualified” tires on their bikes because of the potential for a catastrophic failure. When a tire that was designed for much less weight and hp is run at temperature on our bikes it is not a matter of if their will be a problem but when. Personally, I value my life enough to do the due diligence in this area with people who know what they are talking about rather than someone who has a vested interest in selling me a tire. If you have spent as much money as you say on tires and wheels then you should have not only something that looks good but performs without the nagging thought of “will it blow during this burn out”.

Last week when I left TBH going about 20 with a cool tire twisted the throttle all the way on the Shafiroff Racing 540 until the shift light came on at 6300 and left a cloud of smoke that Curtis (owner of TBH) said covered the building! :cop2: I love doing that too much to worry abut tires. :wink:
Dave

I agree ... I want the best possible solution to our (Boss Hoss owners) tire problem. There are so few choices available as far as MC specific tires go and NONE of them fit the bill so to speak. I plan to start looking very hard for a replacement tire this winter. I am sure I will find something in the automotive circle for the rear but the front will still be "marginal" :( and a "weak" point. I've had rear wheel blowouts and while not fun I never laid the bike down ... had the front tire blown I am sure it would have been a different story.

I've run car tires on bikes before and I've always found that there is "give and take". I did get used to running the flat profile car tire (Toyo Proxies) and I will probably make the switch as soon as I can locate a tire that will fit my wheel, fit my fender, rated at the 149+ (V I believe) would make me happy, rounded profile on sides, sticky for decent traction but not sticky enough to prevent a good burnout. Asking too much? I know there is a tire out there I just did not have the time to research, locate and mount the tire before the trip south.
 

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In all my years of dirt track racing and road riding I have never had a blow out . Had several flat tires because of spinning the tire on the rim or nails etc., but the experts claim that a rear tire blow out on a motor cycle at highway speeds is much harder to handle than a front tire blowout .

I think anyone is crazy to run those wide tires on the Boss when we all know they are not rated for the weight of the Boss especially a 502 . I know they look great but , I think we are better off sticking with the 230 Avon Or a car tire until a wider tire rated for the Boss weight comes along .


Jack
 

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this has been discussed before, but I think only a statement of an Avontechnican would really clear this issue. Our 230 has a 86H rating and the new Avon 300 has a 88V, which is better. Still I hear, that Avon does not recomend the 300 for our bikes. Why ? Of course for the the 300 you need the 18x10,5 rim and a wider fender. So at this point I am sticking with the 230 :)
Peter
 

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Stilll think the majority of the concern from the manufacturers is the weight/horsepower/torque effects on their tires.

Gotta believe increasing those factors by 2.5 is gonna kill most tires designed for "normal" motorcycles.

I know it sure killed the 280 Metzler.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
GRUMPY said:
Stilll think the majority of the concern from the manufacturers is the weight/horsepower/torque effects on their tires.

Gotta believe increasing those factors by 2.5 is gonna kill most tires designed for "normal" motorcycles.

I know it sure killed the 280 Metzler.

Tim
Hey Tim! I was hoping you would jump in here! I know Eliot was NOT thrilled with the 280 Metz for looks or wear. I did not think you liked it much either. How do you like the Sumitomo HRZ? You getting some miles on it? I am sure the new 240 Metz will be toast in short order ... I will probably end up with a car tire just for weight/speed ratings. What do you think about your setup now? Is your rear wheel the same width as mine ... I believe it is :? Ah ... winter is almost here and I will have plenty of time for research! You going to make FL in a couple weeks? Still looking forward to meeting you in person. TIA for any insight!
 

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V-man,

Actually, when I went to the car tire I changed to a 9 3/4" rim. I really like the car tire 95 % of the time. I wears good, handles the weight & power extrememly well and the Sumi is hard enough compound taht you can still light it up nicely. Yet when you heat the tire a bit, you can get some really good traction.

I have about 3500 miles on it and I would not change back to a M/C tire.
The ONLY poor characteristic is it's handling in dirt or grass.....because of the flat face the tire "hunts" the ruts & holes pretty hard. But once you understand that, it is great.

Steve put the same set-up on his and it will be interesting to see what his reaction is too.

Tim
 

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Car Tire

I went to a car tire a long time ago. I have not gotten quiet as exotic as some of you, but I still have two kids in school, one of which is in med school. I stuck with the stock wheel that came on my 2000 model. I first mounted a 235R H70 Firestone PV41. I damaged this tire up on the mounting screws for the rear fender. I then turned the screws over with the screw head on the bottom side and mounted a H70 225R PV41. I have been well satisfied with the ride. It is a hell of a lot better than the 230 Avon, in my opinion. However you need to keep the tire air psi spot on(to prevent wobble)and beware of unlevel surfaces like Tim said. No way I would go back.

Russell
 

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Ah..yes..Steve did put the same set up on his bike. After one day of riding I truly fell in love with it.......unfortunately at the rally in Tennessee I also fell in love with a 2005 385hp..steel fenders..scoop tank..and a avon 300 tire on the rear. The 2005 won out and took my money, Someone will be happy with the set up I let go. Damn after spending all that money. Milwaukee Boss Hoss got the deal. Needs some carb work and convertor. This thing is a dog compared to the one I traded. Anyway .... I loved the car tire once you get used to the handling. Books still out on the 300.....if I don't like it..off it goes and the car tire goes on!!!!! Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for all the advice, it's given me plenty to think about. I got new rubber yesterday (Thanks Directline, Chris and UPS). I'll get these mounted now but I plan to swap the rear for a car tire ... not sure which one right now but it will be an auto tire for sure and properly rated. Hope to see some of you down FL.

Don


PS
Congratulations on the new ride Steve! :D


 

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Steve ,

Congrats on the new bike ? What do these new steel fenders look like . Got a picture ?

Jack
 
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