Nightmare at Daytona 2005

14329 Views 56 Replies 18 Participants Last post by c yaaaa, May 1, 2005

X-Ray

Discussion Starter · Apr 20, 2005

Dear Friends,
Any Advise would be appreciated as I fly to FL tomarrow.
“ Crafting America’s Dream Machines Since 1990” and billed as the ultimate motorcycle I shelled out $40K in Daytona 2004 for what was to become the nightmare at Daytona Bike Week 2005.
I had to trailer my bike all the way to Daytona because it would not run more than 300 feet before stalling and failing to restart. Very odd since it ran fine after just being serviced a Mountain Boss Hoss where the failed starter, and failed parking brake were replaced. After arriving in Daytona and losing a day of riding the fuel pump was replaced. Ran fine until the next day when my group was ready to head out for a ride and again flame-out no restart. Back to MBH for a carburetor replacement and another day of riding lost. No complaints with MBH as they kept at it until the problem was resolved. Next day head out across the state to Marco Island cruising down I-75 stop for fuel and the bike won’t go into neutral, but it will start in DRIVE, that’s real safe. I called Rodger at MBH and he suggested that it may be a shifter problem, but since I’m close to Summit Boss Hoss he will contact Mike Kelly to expect me. I arrived at Summit the next day and when the pan was dropped it was full of metal pieces, needs a rebuild, but Mike and his crew are heading out to Daytona the next day. When I think that my vacation is totally shot Mike comes through with an Ultra Classic for me to finish my vacation. That’s the kind of treatment I appreciate for from both of these dealers, Mountain & Summit are class acts.
I got a call from Mike Kelly on Monday 4/18 that my bike was complete tested and awaiting arrival on Thursday to pick up, however, I was informed that the factory had denied warrantee coverage because the transmission failure is my fault!
I’ve just had an unbelievable conversation with Rad Hunsley whereby I implored him to do the right thing voluntarily with no success, so I’m left with the options of coughing up another $1,521 or sue Boss Hoss. Having spent over $50k in the last 2 years successfully defending a frivolous lawsuit, I can honestly state that I despise lawyers with every fiber in my body. Is this what I’m reduced to to gain satisfaction? The starter failed, the parking brake failed, the fuel pump failed, the carburetor failed, all of these mechanical devices were not my fault, but some suit behind a desk can determine that the failed transmission gear set is rider abuse. This same transmission that has been the weakest link in this motorcycle. Man am I angry.....Ray

See less See more

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

Zenbiker

· #2 · Apr 21, 2005

Ray...How many miles on the bike when you bought it and is it out of the one year warranty?
The question is did the previous owner beat the tranny up? I am surprised at Rad's response. I have always found him and the factory to be very accommodating. I implied a lawsuit one time to him by telling him I was at the end of my rope and the factory replaced my forks free of charge.
ALL items sold have an implicit warranty which, basically, says that the item should perform as advertised for a reasonable period of time.
You may need to talk down and dirty with the factory to get satisfaction but that's what you may be facing.
Sorry for your unusual woes. Hard to understand how all these things could go wrong so quickly and wonder whether there was not just a single undiagnosed problem.
Did you buy it from a dealer or from an owner? If from a dealer...I would hold it responsible. Sounds to me like the seller wanted to unload a "lemon"....Joe

X-Ray

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 21, 2005

Joe,
Brand new from Mountain in Daytona 2004, 12 miles. I year 3 days old, but had I been able to ride it more than 300 feet then trans would have broken down in PA. For $1,521 they lost a customer for life, and anyone else I can convince of the same. I'ts not the money either I just expect the factory to back what they sell, I rode it and serviced it exactly per the instructions....Ray

Geezer

· #4 · Apr 21, 2005

Ray:

How many miles on the bike? Did they tell you what parts broke in the
tranny, and what would cause these specific parts to fail?

In the old days, tranny failures were numerous. However in the last
few years I have not heard of many, unless it was the result of abuse
(power shifting) or extreme horsepower applications.

I am not saying your failure was the result of abuse, but just trying to
understand the reason for the failure.

I would discuss this with Tom at Mountain, as he is a first class individual
as well as a first class dealer.

Geezer

See less See more

X-Ray

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 21, 2005

Geezer,
The gearset was in pieces. 6000 miles on the bike, I'm the only rider, about 70% tread on my tires, and I never power shifted, allways twisted the thortle in 1st. I've got no agument with Tom and he has supported my argument to the factory. The decision was all Rad Hunsley and Jim Callaway neither of which looked at the transmission. This is the new look of the corporate Boss Hoss, deny responsibility, blame the customer.....Ray

MBFsupport

· #6 · Apr 21, 2005

I am very sorry to hear about your problems and I would be upset too if I were you. I know that Mountain Boss Hoss is one of if not the best Boss Hoss dealer in the country. I have heard of them doing some extra ordinary warranty and repair work for their customers. I would think that Tom could get the factory to take care of you seeing they are their biggest dealer.

Jim Callaway is another very respectable person. I had a tranny that was leaking on a 99 and it was 4 years old when I got it. I took it in for a rebuild and was told it would cost me 500 bucks or so. When I came back to pick it up they had rebuilt the tranny with new cases and all free of charge. I guess they cut one of the o-ring grooves too deep and they said it was their fault. I would not have known anything and would have paid the 500 bucks and been happy to do so if they hadn't told me about the problem.

At the risk of sounding like you may have done something wrong I would think that Jim at Nesco and Boss Hoss must have a pretty good reason for thinking that it is not their problem. I know there are two sides to every story and from what I have experienced and read on the boards I have to say this is not the norm for these guys. I really hope that this is not the "new look of the corporate Boss Hoss" as you say, that would really be a shame.

Maybe you should send the tranny in for repair and like me they will find it was their fault. You got to fix it anyway so why not just get it done and hope they you are right and they are wrong. I know Jim is a honest man and if it is their problem he would say so.

See less See more

NcChopper

· #7 · Apr 21, 2005

Lamont,

You would think that the factory would jump through hoops to keep Tom happy but I made that very statement to him this past bike week while they were working on my bike and he said one would think so but that isn't the case at all. He buys a lot of bikes from Boss Hoss. A lot as far as Boss Hoss is concerned. He told me that they won't even let him buy a rolling chasis anymore without the motor like they used too. So, if anybody ever wanted a motor, sounds like Tom has em on occasion. I doubt he could cut a deal on one but might be able to since he can pass the hidden cost onto a future buyer anyway.

I had a favorable experience with Rad (although he would never talk to me personally) over a past issue. I wish they would have at least told Ray to send the tranny into Nesco (or they may require you to go through a dealer now) and like you said inspect it then make a determination and hopefully the factory and Jim would do the honest thing and fix it if broken because of workmanship or faulty parts.

Chris

See less See more

V-MAN

· #8 · Apr 21, 2005

I guess I am a little surprised too. :? Without actually SEEING the transmission how can it be determined that it was "rider error" that caused the tranny to fail? :? I think they should have INSPECTED the transmission then made a determination as to the cause of failure.

Sorry to hear of all the problems you have been dealing with ... for that fact alone I would have thought that even if the failure was "questionable" they would repair the transmission for customer satisfaction alone.

Humm ... keep us posted with final outcome, good luck.

gizmo#137

· #9 · Apr 21, 2005

tranny

Sorry to hear of your bike problems. Sunday nite my tranny stop working
the cluthes are slipping. After talking to JIM at nessco he thinks it is a o-ring or seal at the pump. so i am in the process of pulling the trans..I have a 1999 350 single speed with 7300 miles. I am going to strip that trans to the bone and measure all mating parts. I don't like the fact that the BH co puts all the blame on the rider when the dealers back the owner. Has anyone strip a SS trans? what should i be looking for? I never burn out . took it easy on the first 30mph then I would get into it
from time to time. ANY HELP MJ (Gizmo)

millionaire_4

· #10 · Apr 21, 2005

Nightmare in Daytona 2005

Gentlemen,
I have cut and pasted Rays' first post, as well as the common sense approach from Vman and LaMonsterV8 directly into the Boss Hoss email.
I too find it hard to believe that they could diagnose the problem, without actually looking at the transmission or knowing the history of the bike.
My suggestion, like LaMonsterV8 is to send it back into Boss Hoss for repair and determination, see what they say. How can this hurt you?
Dave

Busa Dave

· #11 · Apr 21, 2005

Sorry and I know what it feels like to have a problem as my 502 had liquid lock that bent #7 connecting rod--thats why I have a new engine! No help from Rad either. You are putting too much thought into this as in fact you have no legal recourse but to vent does make you feel better. Welcome to the cruel hard world. To post everything that has gone wrong with my bike would take some time some big some little with nothing to do with my riding. The BH is a cool bike, reliable (eg 4th rear brake rebuild in 2 years) it is not and quality control as well as engineering is rather suspect I have seen it too many times. I am just glad that the people who work on mine are so good that I do not worry about it.

Elvis (Hemicide)

· #12 · Apr 21, 2005

it was full of metal pieces, needs a rebuild, but Mike and his crew are heading out to Daytona the next day..........I got a call from Mike Kelly on Monday 4/18 that my bike was complete tested and awaiting arrival on Thursday to pick up, however, I was informed that the factory had denied warrantee coverage because the transmission failure is my fault!

I guess I am a little surprised too. Without actually SEEING the transmission how can it be determined that it was "rider error" that caused the tranny to fail? I think they should have INSPECTED the transmission then made a determination as to the cause of failure.

It seems like the tranny was rebuilt by Summit, so someone representing the factory has seen the damage.

Zenbiker

· #13 · Apr 21, 2005

Ray...I have to say that despite Busa Dave's somewhat cynical post something here doesn't compute. The factory has replaced many things for me that were technically out of warranty but that reasonably should not have needed replacement. For example..cracked motor mounts or poor chrome on the forks and triple trees all of which were replaced way out of warranty.
The thing I understand least is Tom Schaeffer's inability to get the factory to "bend" because he is probably the most "hard-wired" to the factory dealer in the country.
The other thing I'm having a hard time understanding is the multiple failures of so many components at the same time. Fuel pump, parking brake, trans and carb (how does a carburetor fail?) This is an Edelbrock carb..not a Boss Hoss invention and the starter is a standard Powermaster..also not a Boss Hoss item. Adjustments..sure...Failure?..I don't get it. The carb is a metal box which has components that can go bad but a REPLACEMENT needed?...Don't get it.
I think it may be attorney time for you. One year and 3 days...THREE DAYS OUT OF WARRANTY AND IT IS DENIED???
If the facts are as you state them... I would certainly let Rad know where you are going with this.
No one on any of the sites in my five years of Boss ownership has experienced this type of of multiple failure with 12K on the bike or even with much more mileage.
I'm sorry for your problems but I feel like I'm missing something here....Joe
PS. When you say Rad would never speak to you personally, that contradicts your earlier post in which you stated that you had an "unbelievable" conversation with him. I'd call the factory DAILY to speak with him and not relent until he got on the phone.

See less See more

NcChopper

· #14 · Apr 21, 2005

Joe,
I think you may have my statement about Rad confused with Ray's conversation.

<<I had a favorable experience with Rad (although he would never talk <<to me personally) over a past issue.

I should have said he never did not never would anyway.

Chris

Elsboss

· #15 · Apr 22, 2005

Gentlemen,

I've been saying it for 4 years now and will say it until there's a re-design. The Boss Hoss tranny has been, and will continue to be a problem. There have been minor fixes but they've gone 1/2 way IMHO. This board is comprised of a very fractional number of the total number of Bosses out there and if one was to have the data of the number of tranny problems relative to the total number of bikes, you would be convinced that there is indeed a serious problem. Percentages should be unacceptable if they were half what they are.

The fact that some of you have said; "I've never had a problem" doesn't mean ****. The numbers (percentage wise) req'd for auto mfgs to recall and repair are microscopic as compared to the number of tranny related issues that have been associated with the 2 speed Nesco on BH's.

I feel sorry for this guy. The insinuation that it is possibly his fault is shameful, again, IMHO. Tom and Mtn BH, Mike and Summit BH are as good as it gets but the factory....horse of a different color. In spite of some of you having had a win with the factory on an issue or two, I've heard many that have hit the wall. Absolutely shameful.

You guys that do run the piss out of them (1% by my observation) better keep the damn tranny in 1st gear. Even then, the boogie man's gonna eventually get you...statistically a fact. Remember the old Yahoo posts? Anyone not know what SOSDD means?

Elliot

See less See more

Zenbiker

· #16 · Apr 23, 2005

Elliot has said it all with respect to the tranny. It is NOT what we bargained for when we bought the bike. We shouldn't have to be cautious about using it but this is the case....PERIOD!
This doesn't explain the company's unwillingness to deal with you, however, and I'd persue this to death if I were you...Joe

X-Ray

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 24, 2005

I'm Baaaack

Well back from a 25 hour run Marco Is. FL to Palmerton PA, no problems on the ride back other than rain, but I did need a new ignition switch before I left Summit. It's my fault though as I do POWER SHIFT the switch on and off. It was disheartening to end my conversations at fuel stops (the usual questions) with the way the factory betrayed me. I guess I'll have to sell it and pick up a V-King, hey Elvis, is that a good idea?....Ray

Elvis (Hemicide)

· #18 · Apr 24, 2005

Hey X-Ray,
Sorry to hear about all your problems lately, hopefully your done, and will be good to go for a long time.

As for the King-V, you would be giving up a lot of wow factor, most people don't even notice my bike is a V8.

critter

· #19 · Apr 25, 2005

Howdy Everyone,
I too am sorry for X-Rays problems and hope that they are fixed. This is really making me have a lot of second thoughts about the upcoming Iron Butt, 11K in 11 days. This information along with the fact that BH Corp won't even talk to me about the BH being in the rally (free publicity???? good or bad), does not make me have a warm fuzzy feeling about riding through Nevada in the middle of the night. Glenn B. (nice writeup by the way on you 50CC) has proved it can be a Long Distance mount, but the reliability problems are seeming to add up. Transmissions, I can not take an extra transmission along with me. Brakes, water pump, alternator, althernator belt (ok), starter, hum. I better take some more of those little liquor bottles like they have on the airplanes with me along with more credit cards.
Regards,
Bill Critter
Seabrook, Texas

Busa Dave

· #20 · Apr 25, 2005

zenbiker said:
Ray...I have to say that despite Busa Dave's somewhat cynical post something here doesn't compute. The factory has replaced many things for me that were technically out of warranty but that reasonably should not have needed replacement. For example..cracked motor mounts or poor chrome on the forks and triple trees all of which were replaced way out of warranty.
The thing I understand least is Tom Schaeffer's inability to get the factory to "bend" because he is probably the most "hard-wired" to the factory dealer in the country.
The other thing I'm having a hard time understanding is the multiple failures of so many components at the same time. Fuel pump, parking brake, trans and carb (how does a carburetor fail?) This is an Edelbrock carb..not a Boss Hoss invention and the starter is a standard Powermaster..also not a Boss Hoss item. Adjustments..sure...Failure?..I don't get it. The carb is a metal box which has components that can go bad but a REPLACEMENT needed?...Don't get it.
I think it may be attorney time for you. One year and 3 days...THREE DAYS OUT OF WARRANTY AND IT IS DENIED???
If the facts are as you state them... I would certainly let Rad know where you are going with this.
No one on any of the sites in my five years of Boss ownership has experienced this type of of multiple failure with 12K on the bike or even with much more mileage.
I'm sorry for your problems but I feel like I'm missing something here....Joe
PS. When you say Rad would never speak to you personally, that contradicts your earlier post in which you stated that you had an "unbelievable" conversation with him. I'd call the factory DAILY to speak with him and not relent until he got on the phone.

What you view as cynicism I view as just statement of fact and in my line of work when the kind of design, reliability, maintainability and supportability issues are encountered on one of our products it not only costs money but possibly someone’s life. I love my BH and have taken great pains to correct as much as I can the deficiencies in it’s design and manufacture. Just because we want to have something that is perfect doesn’t make it so in most cases.

I ma sure that many of the issues spoken about here could be rectified thru the factory but at what cost? If for example the transmission was made to be more robust and take the kind of pressures generated by more “spirited” riding it might add a few thousand dollars to the price point which is something I would gladly pay but how many people would not is the question the factory asks.

I do love the HP so!!!!!!!!!!

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.