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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I'm new to this board. I rolled up to Stamford Ct and ordered
a 06 BB 502 with a 300 rear. How do the 502's hold up, trans - motor
etc. I still have time to change to a SB. I rode the SB and was
suprised that is was so well balanced and easy to ride, great motorcycle. Any advise would be apprreciated.

Thank you
 

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Welcome and congrats.

I think they all have there little problems and it really isn't a 502 or 350 thing, you just have to deal with whatever may show up. You may be one of the lucky ones that never has any problems, I hope that's the case. I ride quite a bit so for me the SB works well but if I could afford it I would have a BB too. ;)
 

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One thing to remember is that the SB comes with a Warranty and the BB does not !
 

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Just so I have a clear conscience you are making a huge mistake with that tire! Make sure and ask Stamford to acknowledge in writing that that tire is not under any circumstance to be used on our bike so that if something does happen you or your relatives will have recourse! Do some research here on this subject or you can PM me and we can talk privately about this matter. Because of what I do I have some resources in this area that other do not.

Congratulations on the new bike----they are fun to ride and modify!!!!!
:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you LaMonsterV8 and Busa Dave for the welcome. Busa Dave, my thought on the 300 rear is that it would add stability. Bruce at Stamford
has a 300 on his personal bilke, the bike that won Rats Hole a few times.
Bruce did not at all in any way try to sell me the 300 rear it was my
though about the stability. How uninformed am I, mouth shut ears open.

Roadrat
 

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Road Rat,

The thing about the 300 tire is that it is NOT designed for the weight, speed or horsepower of the Boss Hoss. Take it from someone who knows, if you put the wrong tire on your Hoss and ever use it to anywhere near it's potential you will be "extremely" sorry. The tire that comes on the bike is to my knowledge the only tire that is specifically designed for the Boss Hoss. But then again as a US Army Safety Officer, I am admittedly somewhat of a safety thug LOL!
 

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Rat,

Actually, one of the boys from Germany on the other BHRA site contacted Avon regarding the use of the Avon 300 on the Boss and was told that the tire was in fact stout enough to handle the weight, side loads and torque of the bike. Let's get our facts straight before we send new guys into the dark side boys.

Tim

This a copy of that e-mail conversation between Peter and Nick Turner of Avon tire. The Avon that should NOT be used is the 250.

This is my e-mail conversation with Nick Turner from Avon about the Avon 300. I now feel on the safe side with this statment.
(Read from bottom to the top)

Hi Peter,



The 300/35 R18 should have no problem with the torque of the 502 Boss.



Kind regards,



Nick Turner



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 23 November 2004 17:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Betreff: RE: Feedback



Hi Nick,

thank you for your reply. I supose that then the sidewalls of the 300/35 have no problem with the torque of the 502 Boss as well as the recommended 230/60 ?

Kind regards.

Peter Luthcke



-------Originalmeldung-------



Von: Turner, Nick

Datum: 11/23/04 13:32:46

An: '[email protected]'

Betreff: RE: Feedback



Hi Peter,



Thanks for your enquiry. Our 230/60-15 86H AM21 Roadrunner is the

recommended rear fitment for your motorcycle as a replacement for the

original equipment tyre. The overall width of this tyre is: 234 mm and the

overall diameter is: 658 mm.



Our 300/35 R18 88H AM42 Venom-R rear tyre has an overall width of 299 mm and

an overall diameter of 667 mm. You of course cannot fit this tyre to the

original wheel (18 inch instead of 15 inch) and you may also have some

problems with clearance around the original swingarm, mudguard, etc and this

would require some custom modifications. The increase in rating of this tyre

is not a problem.



Hope this helps you.



Kind regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you for the feedback, I'm going to go see Bruce at Stamford this
weekend and pick his brains then Avon. Thanks for the heads up about the warranty since my warranty has expired I'm rollen with 502.

Roadrat
 

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Tim, Thanks for setting this issue straight...once again. Steve
 

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GRUMPY said:
Rat,

Actually, one of the boys from Germany on the other BHRA site contacted Avon regarding the use of the Avon 300 on the Boss and was told that the tire was in fact stout enough to handle the weight, side loads and torque of the bike. Let's get our facts straight before we send new guys into the dark side boys.

Tim

This a copy of that e-mail conversation between Peter and Nick Turner of Avon tire. The Avon that should NOT be used is the 250.

This is my e-mail conversation with Nick Turner from Avon about the Avon 300. I now feel on the safe side with this statment.
(Read from bottom to the top)

Hi Peter,



The 300/35 R18 should have no problem with the torque of the 502 Boss.



Kind regards,



Nick Turner



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 23 November 2004 17:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Betreff: RE: Feedback



Hi Nick,

thank you for your reply. I supose that then the sidewalls of the 300/35 have no problem with the torque of the 502 Boss as well as the recommended 230/60 ?

Kind regards.

Peter Luthcke



-------Originalmeldung-------



Von: Turner, Nick

Datum: 11/23/04 13:32:46

An: '[email protected]'

Betreff: RE: Feedback



Hi Peter,



Thanks for your enquiry. Our 230/60-15 86H AM21 Roadrunner is the

recommended rear fitment for your motorcycle as a replacement for the

original equipment tyre. The overall width of this tyre is: 234 mm and the

overall diameter is: 658 mm.



Our 300/35 R18 88H AM42 Venom-R rear tyre has an overall width of 299 mm and

an overall diameter of 667 mm. You of course cannot fit this tyre to the

original wheel (18 inch instead of 15 inch) and you may also have some

problems with clearance around the original swingarm, mudguard, etc and this

would require some custom modifications. The increase in rating of this tyre

is not a problem.



Hope this helps you.



Kind regards,


This is not even close to a statement of suitability from the manufacturer--this should not be too difficult to verify. If someone can show an official statement of position rather than just an off the cuff remark by who knows who. Grumpy sorry but if you are going to trust your life to someone who is not intimate with the product and what it is designed to do then I hope you have plenty of life insurance.

Why would a tire that big have the necessary robustness for our application? That would not be cost effective to design and manufacture for a handful of tire sales vs. the thousands for the v-twin market-maybe it is maybe it's not. When Avon and I wonder if Avon's Counsel is aware that people and I assume this person is associated with Avon are making representations that conflict with it's official statement of position that I have seen in writing.

I will endeavor to get to the bottom of this with correspondence with Avon---better to understand this with a statement from Avon than someone get killed because of misinformation from a well meaning but possibly unqualified employee.
 

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I tried to send an email to Nick Turner from Cooper Tire who that email was from and got the following response:

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

Recipient address: [email protected]
Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.1.1 <[email protected]> is not a valid mailbox
Remote system: dns;mail1.cooperworld.net (TCP|206.46.252.40|37511|66.100.148.20|25) (armageddon.virtualstorm.com ModusGate ESMTP Receiver Version 4.1.361.9 Ready)


I will try other methods tomorrow but this one was a dead end so far.
 

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Thanks Tim for posting my conversation with Avon. :)
Busa: That was the only statement I could get from Avon. I am aware that he said "should" and not "is", but I guess you will never get such a statement from a manufacturer. The 300 has a higer rating than the 230 which at least means it is made for higher loads (88H vs.86H), but this does not say anything about sidewall stability. Since the sidewall of the 300 is much lower than the 230 it "should" be ok. Fact is that a lot of Bosses run the 300 in the meantime without a problem but I am sure that we all would be more than happy to get an official aproval from Avon :)
Peter
 

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Steve / Peter,

I guess I am a believer in real world testing. I for one would not run a 280 Metzler again, even on my enemic little small block :lol: as that tire in my real life experience will not handle the weight, power and 400+' burnouts...........

I watched Steve absolutely pound his 300 and it really stands up well.....I looked at your sidewalls, tread face and cornering edges, and they looked great after the weekend of fast, heavy running in high temps, and a couple (several 300'+ burnouts).

According to the specs of the 300, it is rated equal to, or higher than the 230.........don't know if Avon would issue a statement regarding the useage on a Boss, but then again Sumitomo doesn't promote its' car tire for the Boss either..........it has to be based on the tires' rating for speed & weight.............

The 300 is the only round tire I would run on mine (other than the 230) if I ever went back to a M/C tire.........but that is just my opinion and certainly not an endorsement or guarantee that one might not fail....... heck look at much trouble the 230's have been :oops:

Tim

BTW Steve----the trike thing ain't working :cry: She's not buying it at all so I guess I'll have to wait to get it for me when I can't hold mine up anymore :wink:
 

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Steve,

Here's the actual specs on the Avon 300 from Avon. 300/35X18 88H

The load rating is 1234.58 pounds (560 kg) and the speed rating is 130 mph.

The 230 is 130 mph and load rated for 1168.44 pounds (535 kg) according to their website.

The tire is made up of the same casing style and materials as the 230. I guess I would be interested in talking to someone and not mention BH, but just the weight of the bike and potential speed.

Sure as hell not an engineer, but the numbers speak volumes :)

Tim
 

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GRUMPY said:
Steve,

The tire is made up of the same casing style and materials as the 230.
Tim

Tim---I would love to know how you obtained this information. I have talked to engineeres with several companies today and could not get this data regarding the casing and materials.

You are a better man than me if you were able to get this discrete data which is usually closely protected by the manufacturer. :D
 

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Dave,

Look on the side of the tire......it shows it as a 300/35X18 88H.

The go to www.tirerack.com and pull up any tire you want. At the top of the tire information you will see the tool bar that has several selections available.....click on "specs"

When you get to the page showing the diameter, air pressure, etc. go to the very left hand column labeled service description/load rating and click on the highlighted wording.....that will take you to the charts indicating the service limits (MPH) and the weight rating in both pounds and Kg.

There is also an article on the Avon site where their engineers were talking about the 300 when it was unveiled in January of 2004 and the referenced their own chart of specs showing the same rating for it. The report stated that the tire was built with the same construction theory as the 230 and to some respect the 250....but went on to say that it had stronger belting.

I'm not an engineer, but all tires have the same characteristics when it comes to load rating and speed. Load rating is determined by a combination of speed (heat), air pressure, tire layup and materials.

It's all there on the web, it just takes abit of hunting because they are not good at organizing their websites for M/C tires..

Tim
 

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Thats what I thought---I am intimate with load ratings and how they work and actually buy all of my tires thru the Tire Rack and have done all of the things suggested when researching the 6 different types of tires I have had on my bike over the last couple of years.

The rubber just won't stay on them very long!

Cheers,
 

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Road Rat,
Congrats on your purchase. You will find Bruce and Debbie not only very knowledgeable but also great to do business with. Bruce is also from a racing background. Enjoy.
Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Glenn,

You are right on the money about Debbie and Bruce. I was looking around for a dealer I spoke to Debbie a few times on the phone she knows her stuff and like Bruce they are both just plain down to earth people. I rode up there yesterday in that 90 degree + heat and even before Debbie said hello she's handing me and my best friend cold bottles of water, my kind of people. I am confident that I'm with the right shop after seeing his work and having all my concerns addessed. Its working out so well even the painter they use [Dragon] is just 10 miles from my home here in Jersey. I'm lookin forward to September and rollen that big block down to Fall Bike week in MB.

Roadrat
 

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Roadrat....Stamford is my dealer and they are great. The 300 tire, however, is an unknown in terms of it's integrity at high speeds, etc. If Avon won't give you a definitive statement as to Boss Hoss fitment..I'd stay away. You certainly don't want to find out that it was inappropriate at 100+ MPH! The tire debate continues but I won't change until Avon says 'yes".
Small block or big block....pic your poison but I can definitely tell you there are far more aftermarket parts for the small block which is THE engine of choice for hot rodders. You can get small block power to big block levels easily. I love massaging the small block to be a beast but to each his own...Joe
PS. I live in NJ...where are you? Lets hook up for as ride. I live in Denville.
 
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