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MIG Welding Suggestions?
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I have been welding on my bikes over the years without a Welding Trade Certificate. Most people don't or won't perform their own welding tasks. In my trade, Welding and brazing is considered routine. If you are comfortable with the equipment, and the materials you are working with, I don't see any issues. Many of us V8 riders are a fussy bunch when it comes to 'neatness'. I practice on similar metals just before I tackle a job, to ensure I have the right amperages, wire speed, gas pressures etc. to achieve the correct penetration and all other elements of concern. I still say, go for it if you are confident in your ability, or if you aren't sure elect the help from those that are willing to do so.
I wouldn't hesitate to weld a plate or component that requires structural integrity on a frame or ancillary parts. Heck, I'm going to dissect a Boss Hoss gas tank and stretch it out... then weld insert components to it. (I'll use TIG for that). And I ain't no expert. But if you take your time, and research your materials, practice on sacrificial pieces to begin with... Bob's your Uncle.
Don't be scared boys.... your not monkeys playing with a hand grenade. :biggrin:
I wouldn't hesitate to weld a plate or component that requires structural integrity on a frame or ancillary parts. Heck, I'm going to dissect a Boss Hoss gas tank and stretch it out... then weld insert components to it. (I'll use TIG for that). And I ain't no expert. But if you take your time, and research your materials, practice on sacrificial pieces to begin with... Bob's your Uncle.
Don't be scared boys.... your not monkeys playing with a hand grenade. :biggrin:
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109 Posts
...and Horizontal. :biker:DC Reverse polarity sucks the weld into the joint of the two metals, AC streight polarity is a surface weld. It Takes hours not minuites to learn to weld. There are three differant positions: Flat, Vertical & Overhead. Overhead is the hardest. If you have never welded, you can't do it. and have it not fail, period!!! If you hate your Trike then do it yourself.John
Stu, your detailed comments on gases are absolutely correct. My response on argon was way too general although in early day of wire feed they used argon with as little as 1 or 2% CO2. Wasn't enough, they found out. 100% argon for aluminium. Thanks for the input.
(That arch project was something else at the time, still is). Hard to believe it has been 47 years since we topped it out. 10/28/65
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You CAN Do it
Sounds as if you have read quite a bit in an effort to be prepared. Metal is relatively cheap so go get a few pieces of scrap metal the same thicknesses as what you will be welding on your trike. Glove up and suit up and put your mask to a setting of 10 so you can see clearly without damaging your eyes. Having those little Gnomes scratching the back of your eyeballs at night sux! so be sure to have the mask on before you even grab the stinger.
Place the two pieces of metal together and plan to weld the seam from left to right. Ground clamp on, Mask on, stinger in place (37.5 degree angle tilted top toward the right) ... pull the trigger. Hold the trigger for just a second or two until you see a small molten metal puddle form then slowly make counter clockwise circles about a 1/2" in diameter centered on the joint. what you want to do is spot the black dot in the middle of the molten metal puddle and slowly move your hand holding the stinger to the right while continuing to make 1/2" counter clockwise at such a speed that the dot stays 1/4" to 3/8" behind the weld.
When welding, the crackling sound the welding makes should strongly resemble eggs frying in bacon grease ( my cardio doc LOVES ME! )
Once you master flat welding you can set something up above your head and practice there. to check and see if your welds are properly penetrating the steel ... after you weld the practice pieces, turn them over and look for a discolored blue line where you welded. If quick enough, you can stop and turn the metal over mid weld and see the RED area. If you don't see obvious markings and metal heat evidence, turn up the heat setting.
Welding isn't rocket science ( actually it WAS! ) but you know what i mean ... take a little time to learn the craft and you will be fine. If you doubt your skills, take your practice pieces to a weld fab shop and show them your work and ask their opinion. If nothing else, it may open the door to meeting a metal fab guy that will help you out.
Sounds as if you have read quite a bit in an effort to be prepared. Metal is relatively cheap so go get a few pieces of scrap metal the same thicknesses as what you will be welding on your trike. Glove up and suit up and put your mask to a setting of 10 so you can see clearly without damaging your eyes. Having those little Gnomes scratching the back of your eyeballs at night sux! so be sure to have the mask on before you even grab the stinger.
Place the two pieces of metal together and plan to weld the seam from left to right. Ground clamp on, Mask on, stinger in place (37.5 degree angle tilted top toward the right) ... pull the trigger. Hold the trigger for just a second or two until you see a small molten metal puddle form then slowly make counter clockwise circles about a 1/2" in diameter centered on the joint. what you want to do is spot the black dot in the middle of the molten metal puddle and slowly move your hand holding the stinger to the right while continuing to make 1/2" counter clockwise at such a speed that the dot stays 1/4" to 3/8" behind the weld.
When welding, the crackling sound the welding makes should strongly resemble eggs frying in bacon grease ( my cardio doc LOVES ME! )
Once you master flat welding you can set something up above your head and practice there. to check and see if your welds are properly penetrating the steel ... after you weld the practice pieces, turn them over and look for a discolored blue line where you welded. If quick enough, you can stop and turn the metal over mid weld and see the RED area. If you don't see obvious markings and metal heat evidence, turn up the heat setting.
Welding isn't rocket science ( actually it WAS! ) but you know what i mean ... take a little time to learn the craft and you will be fine. If you doubt your skills, take your practice pieces to a weld fab shop and show them your work and ask their opinion. If nothing else, it may open the door to meeting a metal fab guy that will help you out.
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109 Posts
I REALLY appreciate your support. Yes, like everything I try for the first time, I read up on it, watched a few YouTube videos and asked for ideas such as I did right here. Not too much I haven't been able to do mostly because of my stubbornness. I have been working on cars ever since I had my first 56 Chevy at age 16 (that's 40 years ago). I totally disassembled that little small-block V8 265cu. in. engine, honed the cylinders, put in new rings, valve guides, main bearings etc, put it back together and it ran great.
I DO have some scrap metal just like what I will be welding and will be running practice beads for sure. Since this is one of Adrian's tilt kits, he advised me to practice welding a few pieces together and then put my work in the bench vise and beat the heck out of it to see if it stays together. All good advice.
"Every job leaves a signature of the person who did it. Autograph your work with excellence."
Just one of the videos I have been watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lNe4fo6hxAQ to get ready for this. Planning to do it this Saturday.
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109 Posts
Just to update you guys, I originally said I was MIG welding, but the welder I am renting is gas-less so technically I guess that means I will be doing Flux Core Arc Welding (FCAW), not Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW). My bad.
I found out that all wire-feed welders like the one I am renting can use flux-cored wires (as opposed to solid wire using gas). The flux is inside the wire and creates its own shielding gas when the wire is consumed during the welding process, so no compressed shielding gas is needed. The flux-core wire is supposed to be deeper penetrating than bare solid wire with gas shielding, but has considerable spatter and slag on the weld that must be removed. After doing all the grinding I did, it looks like the weld area needs only minimal preparation when using flux-core. Grounding is probably the most important.
I am going to weld uphill (pushing) on the vertical joints for better metal penetration (fusion). This 115V single phase Hobart unit only has two settings, one for wire speed and one for voltage. So that's the update. Sorry if I confused anyone... but I was confused myself.
I found out that all wire-feed welders like the one I am renting can use flux-cored wires (as opposed to solid wire using gas). The flux is inside the wire and creates its own shielding gas when the wire is consumed during the welding process, so no compressed shielding gas is needed. The flux-core wire is supposed to be deeper penetrating than bare solid wire with gas shielding, but has considerable spatter and slag on the weld that must be removed. After doing all the grinding I did, it looks like the weld area needs only minimal preparation when using flux-core. Grounding is probably the most important.
I am going to weld uphill (pushing) on the vertical joints for better metal penetration (fusion). This 115V single phase Hobart unit only has two settings, one for wire speed and one for voltage. So that's the update. Sorry if I confused anyone... but I was confused myself.
I hope you follow the advice others have given with regards to practicing on scrap peices first. The 115V machine may be okay, but seems dubious to me.
There is allot to the prep, the machine, settings, position and the skill of the person doing the welding. Personnally, I like the TIG process as it is clean, very low spatter and more controllable than some other forms of welding. Most of my TIG is on thin wall aluminum.
Consider having a professional welder do this job for you.
Regards,
Mark
There is allot to the prep, the machine, settings, position and the skill of the person doing the welding. Personnally, I like the TIG process as it is clean, very low spatter and more controllable than some other forms of welding. Most of my TIG is on thin wall aluminum.
Consider having a professional welder do this job for you.
Regards,
Mark
Eh, a wire feed process is commonly called MIG (metal inert gas).
However, a wire feed machine no matter what is sill a constant voltage process. The current is not controlled. If you need a hotter weld, turn up the voltage and increase wire speed accordingly.
Stick welding, and TIG with a hand held electrode is a constant current process and the voltage varies by running a shorter or longer arc by holding the stick closer or father away from the weld or in the case of tig, adjusting current on the fly with a potentiometer, usually foot controlled.
I repaired welders as part of my trade.
stu
ps
When a Thermal Dynamics machine grenades, throw it away.
However, a wire feed machine no matter what is sill a constant voltage process. The current is not controlled. If you need a hotter weld, turn up the voltage and increase wire speed accordingly.
Stick welding, and TIG with a hand held electrode is a constant current process and the voltage varies by running a shorter or longer arc by holding the stick closer or father away from the weld or in the case of tig, adjusting current on the fly with a potentiometer, usually foot controlled.
I repaired welders as part of my trade.
stu
ps
When a Thermal Dynamics machine grenades, throw it away.
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109 Posts
I like them words! My friend just told me that flux-core arc (FCAW) welding is about as easy as it gets with good metal penetration on metal 1/8" and up. He also says "Burn in the walls and the center will take care of itself." If the puddle flows and the weld washes in then the weld should be strong.
I am going for it, with plenty of 3/16" box tube to practice my t-joints on.
Yeah, practice a lot. One of the problems an inexperienced fellow will have with a MIG is a condition called cold lap. You can run a very pretty bead, but most of it will just be surface weld. It's not going to be a problem I would think, however with such thin material.
Good luck, have fun.
stu
Good luck, have fun.
stu
I used to enjoy selecting instructional literature, pertaining to welding, for an industrial maintenance facility. I came across lots of expensive publications, lots of beginner's publications, and lots of advanced publications. One of the most useful books that I found was written by ESAB - http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-m...m_ciu_pdp_images_1?ie=UTF8&index=1&isremote=0 .
If you would like a sneak preview of what it says, you can view it online at http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig7_1.htm . Go to the bottom of this page, and click on the arrow to go forward, one page at a time. I picked this page, as it may be of the most interest to you at the moment. There are lots of little things, that are not intuitively obvious, that can make a huge difference in welding performance. When you have finished this chapter, you can select another chapter on the left hand side of the menu.
You asked for advice. My advice is to take the time to read this publication. After doing so, you will probably have read enough to be convinced that perhaps the best person to weld your bike, would be a person who has already paid his dues, and knows what he is doing. I am all for do-it-yourself adventures, and strongly advocate the learning of a new skill, however, welding something of importance, is something that is best left to the craftsmen.
If you would like a sneak preview of what it says, you can view it online at http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig7_1.htm . Go to the bottom of this page, and click on the arrow to go forward, one page at a time. I picked this page, as it may be of the most interest to you at the moment. There are lots of little things, that are not intuitively obvious, that can make a huge difference in welding performance. When you have finished this chapter, you can select another chapter on the left hand side of the menu.
You asked for advice. My advice is to take the time to read this publication. After doing so, you will probably have read enough to be convinced that perhaps the best person to weld your bike, would be a person who has already paid his dues, and knows what he is doing. I am all for do-it-yourself adventures, and strongly advocate the learning of a new skill, however, welding something of importance, is something that is best left to the craftsmen.
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109 Posts
I Got er done this weekend. After practicing running beads and t-joints on Saturday like everyone recommended, my friend who has been a union welder for 26 years (including nuclear) did the bottom three sides for me. After he left I bolted Adrian's hinges on and raised the body up to get access to the top of the frame to finish welding the top.
Adrian's kit worked perfectly for me, and as of Monday night the gas lifts were installed and I was watchin Monday Night Football.
Thanks to all the guys who encouraged me as well as the ones who said don't try it, because you all motivated me in different ways to complete my welding project. I have been working on cars since I was 15 when my dad bought me a 55 Chevy, I just never welded for some reason until now.
Like many said, I learned that welding isn't easy, it takes a steady hand, some strong neck muscles, and some fundamental knowledge of how gravity, gun work angle, gun travel angle, travel speed, and direction (push/pull) do matter. I was surprised to see how low my buddy set the voltage on the welder. The chart inside the unit recommended a "4" (the highest setting) on the voltage and a wire feed speed of "30." After running a few test beads, he turned the voltage down to "2" and did an amazing job. When I asked him why, he said "it was too hot," and he preferred to slow down his travel speed and the bead was still great with penetration.
I ended up using the machine set for DCEN-DC "electrode negative" = DCSP=DC straight polarity where about 2/3 of the heat flows to the metal being welded.
Also need to do a major shout-out to Adrian who I probably called 5 or 6 times about various things I needed his advice on. A very nice guy!
Here is a video of my wife lifting the body when the kit was installed.
Link to Youtube video of me welding the top of the frame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQf6WsByQwA
Link to V8 forum photo album of all photos of this project: http://www.v8bikeriders.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1359
1716
Adrian's kit worked perfectly for me, and as of Monday night the gas lifts were installed and I was watchin Monday Night Football.
Thanks to all the guys who encouraged me as well as the ones who said don't try it, because you all motivated me in different ways to complete my welding project. I have been working on cars since I was 15 when my dad bought me a 55 Chevy, I just never welded for some reason until now.
Like many said, I learned that welding isn't easy, it takes a steady hand, some strong neck muscles, and some fundamental knowledge of how gravity, gun work angle, gun travel angle, travel speed, and direction (push/pull) do matter. I was surprised to see how low my buddy set the voltage on the welder. The chart inside the unit recommended a "4" (the highest setting) on the voltage and a wire feed speed of "30." After running a few test beads, he turned the voltage down to "2" and did an amazing job. When I asked him why, he said "it was too hot," and he preferred to slow down his travel speed and the bead was still great with penetration.
I ended up using the machine set for DCEN-DC "electrode negative" = DCSP=DC straight polarity where about 2/3 of the heat flows to the metal being welded.
Also need to do a major shout-out to Adrian who I probably called 5 or 6 times about various things I needed his advice on. A very nice guy!
Here is a video of my wife lifting the body when the kit was installed.
Link to Youtube video of me welding the top of the frame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQf6WsByQwA
Link to V8 forum photo album of all photos of this project: http://www.v8bikeriders.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1359
1716
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You have done well my son so keep up the good work.
Adrian
Way to go!With that project behind you, perhaps now is a good time to learn how to make good solid welds, which you can depend upon. It is a skill that will be valuable to you for the rest of your life. The most popular methods of welding that you may consider to learn, would be gas welding, SMAW (stick welding), MIG welding, and TIG welding. Everyone on this board who welds, has a good reason for choosing the type of equipment which they use. I consider gas welding to be a good starting point to learn about the basics, but a small MIG welding machine will probably keep your interest longer, and be more useful in the longrun. Things that are of great importance, but often overlooked by someone who is new to welding, are to have a good set of soft flexible welding gloves, a comfortable welding jacket, and perhaps a welding apron. Selecting the right helmet is very important as well. I have a $430 Jackson helmet, a $380 Hornell helmet, and a $39 Harbor Freight helmet. They all seem to perform well, and any one of them should keep you happy. As a side note, the Harbor Freight helmet works better for TIG welding than the Jackson and the Hornell, which makes the HF helmet one of my favorites. Two last general rules of thumb - always find a comfortable position when welding, and never be in a hurry. Nothing will ruin a welded joint more quickly, than violating these two rules.Here is good site to browse - http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/forum_show.pl Good luck in whatever you do!
EXCELLENT 57! I'm diggin' that fact that you too had a hand in part of this welding project. It seems that you did a fair bit of homework first! Now that you have a median grasp on what's expected, now you'll likely tackle most of your own welding projects. Like some have said, the practise makes building fun!
We are going to set up a decent ventilation system in our 'welding bay', next week. We are, by FAR NO Professional welders, but we weld much in the way our trade demands. My goal this winter is to learn a steadier hand and make my welds not only practical like we do now... but pretty as well!. We have lots of stainless and aluminum pieces to practice on with the TIG welder.
I'm in the process of 'stretching' a Boss Hoss gas tank, but won't fit it up until I get my bike back from Destination Cycle, as it's having a Kewl Metal front end installed. Typically, I'd do THAT sort of work myself, but Barry and I have a plan. My reason for waiting until the front end is on... is so I can work with what restrictions the different angles may have in just how much I can stretch the tank. Once done, I'll practice the 'pretty' welding on scraps first, then dive right in and fabricate then weld in the extensions on the Tank Stretch project. I'll take pics as well, as I go along.
Great work, 57!!
We are going to set up a decent ventilation system in our 'welding bay', next week. We are, by FAR NO Professional welders, but we weld much in the way our trade demands. My goal this winter is to learn a steadier hand and make my welds not only practical like we do now... but pretty as well!. We have lots of stainless and aluminum pieces to practice on with the TIG welder.
I'm in the process of 'stretching' a Boss Hoss gas tank, but won't fit it up until I get my bike back from Destination Cycle, as it's having a Kewl Metal front end installed. Typically, I'd do THAT sort of work myself, but Barry and I have a plan. My reason for waiting until the front end is on... is so I can work with what restrictions the different angles may have in just how much I can stretch the tank. Once done, I'll practice the 'pretty' welding on scraps first, then dive right in and fabricate then weld in the extensions on the Tank Stretch project. I'll take pics as well, as I go along.
Great work, 57!!
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