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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,


Haven't been on the board for a while and just thought I'd say hello. No Boss in the garage currently but still doing lots of "stuff" with the V8 chopper and added a Yamaha FJR and a BMW K1200 LTC to the stable.

Last night was track night. Mike's stroker/nitrous 540 bigblock, a buds V-Max. a VTX 1800, Hayabusa, GSX 1000, some Yamaha Warriors and a few other assorted bikes ran. Some interesting runs and surprising numbers although consistent with past performances.

DO NOT challenge many Busa's on the street or you're going to get your ass kicked. Consistent 6.5's with a stock Busa. The GSX Suzuki's are running high 6's. The Warriors aren't worth talking about and the V-Max might have a reputation of being a rocket but it's not. Mid 7's was as good as it got last night. The big Honda was pretty impressive. Did 8 seconds flat consistently. Funniest piece of it was watching a big, heavy cruiser, shaft driver doing big wheelies. Doug about flipped it a few times with first gear wheelies.

Same ol' same ol' with Mike's Boss. Too much motor for the tranny and the tire. He was using a 280 street/track tire. Super soft compound and designed for the track. Didn't matter. Up in smoke constantly. The tranny was a loser as usual. Long story there. He did manage to sqeak one 6.51 in there but most of the night was one problem or another.

I'm 100% convinced that if you want to really look good, V8 bikes are the answer. If you really want to go VERY fast and be consistent and reliable, Japan wins.

The 2 wheeled winner at the track last night was a somewhat modified GSX 1000. Consistent 6.1's with a streetable machine. No wheelie bars but a stretched swingarm. A nitrous shot on those things and they're totally untouchable.

Last, Gary's smallblock was bought by the guy who was riding the VTX 1800. Real good guy named Doug. He is soon to be the proud owner of the smallblock that has beaten every bigblock out there. Anyone who was considering buying a smallblock and passed up that one missed the best.

Hope everyone is doing well. Very best regards from the SW Florida Boys.

Elliot 8)
 

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El - I don't know how I missed this post but I see not many people wanted to touch it especially the big block big HP guys. I said it many times before, own a Boss and want your tail put between your legs race a Jap crotch rocket. (sure to piss the brag racers off) You can brag about all the HP you are making but it is impossible to put it through the NESCO tranny to the ground no matter what tires you are running. MARV included !! Dyno drags and g-force meters are the biggest BS items out there. I see too many bone stock Harley's running 11 second times on the dyno-drags (sorry but not in this lifetime). I agree if you really want to go fast and for about 1/4 the price can't beat the rice burners.

Now if want soul. attention, and good old American hot rod power, the Boss is tops!!
 

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fasteddie said:
El - I don't know how I missed this post but I see not many people wanted to touch it especially the big block big HP guys. I said it many times before, own a Boss and want your tail put between your legs race a Jap crotch rocket. (sure to piss the brag racers off) You can brag about all the HP you are making but it is impossible to put it through the NESCO tranny to the ground no matter what tires you are running. MARV included !! Dyno drags and g-force meters are the biggest BS items out there. I see too many bone stock Harley's running 11 second times on the dyno-drags (sorry but not in this lifetime). I agree if you really want to go fast and for about 1/4 the price can't beat the rice burners.

Now if want soul. attention, and good old American hot rod power, the Boss is tops!!
All I can tell you is to put the Nitto drag radial on!! It hooks up so hard it will pull you off the bike if you are not careful. The only drawback is the high speed wobble. I had a modified Busa for 3 years so I know what they will do and my BH with the Nitto would have spanked one pretty hard from a 30 roll on with a warm tire and from a 60 to 150 roll it would be a downright beating. The start does spin a little but it now that I no longer use the tire for fear of my life it does not really matter.

You are correct that unless you can hook up the big ricers will eat you up--been there done that. The new Pilot Sport I put on Friday is showing promise but it is not the hook up tire the Nitto is.
 

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Elsboss said:
Hi Guys,


Haven't been on the board for a while and just thought I'd say hello. No Boss in the garage currently but still doing lots of "stuff" with the V8 chopper and added a Yamaha FJR and a BMW K1200 LTC to the stable.

Last night was track night. Mike's stroker/nitrous 540 bigblock, a buds V-Max. a VTX 1800, Hayabusa, GSX 1000, some Yamaha Warriors and a few other assorted bikes ran. Some interesting runs and surprising numbers although consistent with past performances.

DO NOT challenge many Busa's on the street or you're going to get your ass kicked. Consistent 6.5's with a stock Busa. The GSX Suzuki's are running high 6's. The Warriors aren't worth talking about and the V-Max might have a reputation of being a rocket but it's not. Mid 7's was as good as it got last night. The big Honda was pretty impressive. Did 8 seconds flat consistently. Funniest piece of it was watching a big, heavy cruiser, shaft driver doing big wheelies. Doug about flipped it a few times with first gear wheelies.

Same ol' same ol' with Mike's Boss. Too much motor for the tranny and the tire. He was using a 280 street/track tire. Super soft compound and designed for the track. Didn't matter. Up in smoke constantly. The tranny was a loser as usual. Long story there. He did manage to sqeak one 6.51 in there but most of the night was one problem or another.

I'm 100% convinced that if you want to really look good, V8 bikes are the answer. If you really want to go VERY fast and be consistent and reliable, Japan wins.

The 2 wheeled winner at the track last night was a somewhat modified GSX 1000. Consistent 6.1's with a streetable machine. No wheelie bars but a stretched swingarm. A nitrous shot on those things and they're totally untouchable.

Last, Gary's smallblock was bought by the guy who was riding the VTX 1800. Real good guy named Doug. He is soon to be the proud owner of the smallblock that has beaten every bigblock out there. Anyone who was considering buying a smallblock and passed up that one missed the best.

Hope everyone is doing well. Very best regards from the SW Florida Boys.

Elliot 8)

Is the 280 a motorcycle tire and if so what kind is it? I will bet that is the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
BD,

The 280 referred to is the 280 Metzler. It is indeed a m/c tire but....

the contact patch isn't much bigger than the 250 Avon
most of the 8 1/2 or 8 3/4" wheels are too narrow for this tire
the wear pattern is not good
very small sidewall compromising ride

I had 3 of them on the bigblock and although when new, the ride and look was decent, it did nothing great at the track and I had some seperation problems with 2 of them. It is quite an improvement over the 230 Avon but at a pretty big pricetag when considering the wheel.

We've run the Nittos down here and for track they're tops but for street and general riding they sucked. Lots of wobble and generally poor handling.

The Boss guys are now going to have to beware of yet another. The new BMW K12S will cook a smallblock or bigblock. The BMW guys are calling it the "Busa Killer". Thirty more horse, lighter weight, state of the art technology throughout.

Elliot
 

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El - Bimmers now!!! holly crap!! everybody guns for the big guys..

Dave talk to Elliot about tires that hook up and nesco gearsets, just be careful!! I think Elliot and the south Florida boys are the uncontested champions of going through trannies. I hope Elliot will shed some light on tires hooking up and stress on that ever dependable tranny we have.

FastEddie
 

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fasteddie said:
El - Bimmers now!!! holly crap!! everybody guns for the big guys..

Dave talk to Elliot about tires that hook up and nesco gearsets, just be careful!! I think Elliot and the south Florida boys are the uncontested champions of going through trannies. I hope Elliot will shed some light on tires hooking up and stress on that ever dependable tranny we have.

FastEddie
Thanks--any info would be helpful and after talking to Marv the BFG Drag Radial still has some wobble issues. The tire that I put on Friday-Michelin Pilot Sport is Very stable but the hook up is not the same :twisted: I was thionking about the Beemer but after reading this it looks like maybe another Busa may be in the cards for me-http://www.motorcycledaily.com/30july04_2005bmw_k1200s.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That was a pretty interesting article. Thanks for the link. Certainly had to deflate a bit of wind out of the BMW affectionados.

There would be a few reasons I wouldn't jump at getting the new "S" model. Haven't seen the MSRP but would suspect it to be pretty stiff as compared to the 'Busa. I would also like to see some real test and track results rather than the seat-of-the-pants impression of m/c journalists.

There are also a few reasons I would like to have one if the numbers were favorable (track #'s and cost). I've found on other BMW models you don't necessarily feel you're going as fast as you are. The attention given to comfort, suspension, ride position, fit and finish, etc. is really exceptional. The dealers and support are usually top notch as well.

Still and as the author of the article indicated, pretty hard to beat the ZX12R or the 'Busa when it comes to blinding speed. Some minor modifications to either put them in a position of kicking any Bosses butt pretty convincingly particularly out of the hole. If the Boss doesn't have a nitrous shot, forget it.

It again reinforces the notion that if you really want to go fast, handle exceptional, and not have to spend the family jewels...get a Jap bike. When running the smallblock Boss yesterday and besting him on my FJR, I may have won by a bike length but....he sure looked a helluva lot better! And then, the attention at the gas station, he won by a margin of 100 to 0, hee hee. The best solution...have one of each. If however, it can only be one, it has to have a V8.

Elliot 8)
 

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Elsboss said:
That was a pretty interesting article. Thanks for the link. Certainly had to deflate a bit of wind out of the BMW affectionados.

There would be a few reasons I wouldn't jump at getting the new "S" model. Haven't seen the MSRP but would suspect it to be pretty stiff as compared to the 'Busa. I would also like to see some real test and track results rather than the seat-of-the-pants impression of m/c journalists.

There are also a few reasons I would like to have one if the numbers were favorable (track #'s and cost). I've found on other BMW models you don't necessarily feel you're going as fast as you are. The attention given to comfort, suspension, ride position, fit and finish, etc. is really exceptional. The dealers and support are usually top notch as well.

Still and as the author of the article indicated, pretty hard to beat the ZX12R or the 'Busa when it comes to blinding speed. Some minor modifications to either put them in a position of kicking any Bosses butt pretty convincingly particularly out of the hole. If the Boss doesn't have a nitrous shot, forget it.

It again reinforces the notion that if you really want to go fast, handle exceptional, and not have to spend the family jewels...get a Jap bike. When running the smallblock Boss yesterday and besting him on my FJR, I may have won by a bike length but....he sure looked a helluva lot better! And then, the attention at the gas station, he won by a margin of 100 to 0, hee hee. The best solution...have one of each. If however, it can only be one, it has to have a V8.

Elliot 8)
Well put!! If I could get hooked up and my stall is 2600 but we may up it in the 3000 range the next time it comes out as the motor is at 600ftlbs or greater from 2900 to a little over 6k. Traction is everything and when I pull in the intake duration of the cam on the Shafiroff 540 along with the big Mountian headers a crown will usually form!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm becoming firmly convinced that no matter how much motor we use on these machines at the track, traction will continually hold us to numbers no better than mid 6's and 120 mph in the 1/8th mile. Actually, the very best time of any of the 2 wheeler Boss Hosses at our track over a 3 year period is a 6.40 . The launch is always the stickey wicket and no matter what tire, what pressure, what ambient conditions, nitrous pressure, gearing, etc...tires break loose and that's what you get. I actually think it becomes more difficult with more motor as demonstrated here by 2 nitrous bigblock stroker motors that end up putting any tire up in smoke at various points down the track and can't seem to get below a 6.5 .

We then have the issue of having to roll off the throttle or at the very least go to a neutral throttle position before shifting into 2nd. At that point, whoever's close is going to blow by. Definitely not the ideal race machine. Guess we'll just have to settle for the attention, pride, and having to look so good. And let's not forget that in spite of some of the SuperBikes besting us, it doesn't exactly mean we're slugs.

Elliot
 

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It's interesting reading about your issues with traction because I don't have that problem, in fact quite the opposite. My new SB 385 is stock and not near the power you guys have, but just the same, I cannot get the thing to break loose. I was out one day fooling around, and no matter how hard I tried, I could not get the back wheel to spin. I tried a full throttle snap from a dead stop, a rolling start, everything. I also weigh 240 in my socks and that possibly has a bit to do with it. I know from reading this message board that not all torque convertors are same. Having said all this, I like it just the way it is. I bought the bike to tour with for the most part, but an occasional burnout would be fun. Is my bike the only one out there that will not lay a strip of rubber?

I'm on my second Avon 230 now. I got 11,000 miles out of the first one.
 

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Bryan Ward said:
It's interesting reading about your issues with traction because I don't have that problem, in fact quite the opposite. My new SB 385 is stock and not near the power you guys have, but just the same, I cannot get the thing to break loose. I was out one day fooling around, and no matter how hard I tried, I could not get the back wheel to spin. I tried a full throttle snap from a dead stop, a rolling start, everything. I also weigh 240 in my socks and that possibly has a bit to do with it. I know from reading this message board that not all torque convertors are same. Having said all this, I like it just the way it is. I bought the bike to tour with for the most part, but an occasional burnout would be fun. Is my bike the only one out there that will not lay a strip of rubber?

I'm on my second Avon 230 now. I got 11,000 miles out of the first one.

Sorry to tell you this but something is very wrong! When I test rode a small block a couple of years ago and I weigh about the same as you I had no problem spinning them. Maybe your not getting enough fuel to the engine?
 

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Bryan,

Just a thought.......run the bike down the road at about 30 miles per hour after the trans gets up to temp........roll the throttle on hard into the secondaries and watch the tach to see where the stall quits.......no need to keep in the throttle once it quits climbing. You should see the stall quit (hook up) at about 2100 to 2500 rpm.....if it's going higher it could be the converter is getting way loose.

You should be able to light the tire at any speed up to 30 just by snapping the throttle open.....on Wags' stock converter, he could not get it to spin, and I had to get into the secondaries on his to get it turning....but he went to the high stall converter and can spin the tire at will.

Tim
 

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For what it's worth, rear tire pressure can have an effect as well on the ability to burn that rear tire. Pump that thing all the way up to 42 lbs and if you can't spin it with that much pressure, something is definitely wrong.

FYI, I don't keep my rear tire pressure that high on my 502 as I would NEVER get ANY traction! I keep it around 30-32 lbs and can light the rear tire up from a 10 MPH roll until my shift point over 100 MPH.

Bill
 

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Brian,
Is your 350 carbureted or injected? I demo'd a 350 with fuel injection a few weeks ago, and couldn't get it to break the tire loose from 20 MPH, and that was with a full twist!
Not that it's right, but that's what happened to me. Actually, I found the whole feel of the throttle on the injected Hoss different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ed, you're exactly right. The injected smallblocks are pigs on the bottom. They make up for it in the higher rpm ranges however. We did everything we could to get Gary's original TBI to have some bottom end. Wound up at a bud's garage who is a GM Master Tech and he told us that throttle body system and it's greatly antiquated computer was of the 80's Chevy truck vintage and you could not reprogram to tweak for the Boss. Lots to do with AFR or 02 sensors and whatnot and way too expensive and convoluted to screw with. The plain and simple answer is to just pull it off and put a carb on. We did that on Gary's and voila......all kinds of bottom end.

Elliot
 

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Bryan

I am in the same boat as you. I have a 2002 350/385 HP and I can not get the tire to break loose either. Have tried from 5 mph and up on varying road temps and it just wont do it. I think I can feel the secondarie kick in when I gradually crank the throttle but without testing another I have no comparison. I tried letting it rip up to 200k (120mph) and it was very strong up to about 180 and then started to simmer down at 200 k.

I forgot to mention I filled up just before doing 120 MPH and at that speed the gas was sucked out the kuriakin vented gas cap I put on. The thing let out enough that it was spraying onto my face. When I slowed down it stopped. Just some general info.
Bill
 

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Bill and Bryan
One thought is your secondaries may not be opening quickly enough. There may be too much tension on the adjustable spring. I had to play with this quite a bit to get it right and it makes an enormous difference. You have to get it pretty close to the edge, that is just tight enough not to bog when you snap it open and yet loose enough to give the engine the full blast. This is about 7/8 to 1 turn in from zero tension.
Also I would recommend checking your timing and installing the Crane adjustable advance kit. 14 degrees idle, 36-38 degrees mechanical and 50 degrees total with the vacuum advance.
Joe
 
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