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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a conversation with Avon and to summarize they have had numerous conversations with Boss Hoss on this subject and the 300/35 18 is NOT approved and is not intended under any circumstances to be used on our bikes. It was not built internally to withstand the weight and the Torque generated by our bikes.

I also sent an email containing the statement made by Nick Turner of Cooper Tire and they are very anxious to speak to Nick about this, as the information he provided is indeed faulty and fully realize the ramifications of his actions. It is hoped that something will be sent to me so that I can post it later today. It was somewhat of a concern as the Avon folks had never heard of Nick so I assume that the gentlemen was an indeed an employee but the US Avon organization was not aware of him and has serious concerns about him making statements regarding motorcycle tires. I was also informed that the memo that was sent to Boss Hoss recommending only the 230 tire for our bikes has been officially updated to include the 300 series as unsuitable.

This is yet another example of well meaning people speaking of something, which they have, either incorrect or insufficient knowledge of. Make your tire decisions accordingly but make an informed decision. In my business when things like this tire discussion get started and people, accept them, as fact people will die.

Ride hard and fast but be safe! :D

For those of you that have a good relationship with your Dealer give them a call tomorrow and ask them about the email that went out to the Dealers from Boss Hoss regarding some "incidents" with the large motorcycle tires. Please post what you find out but I won't say I told you so--Ok so I will.
 

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Looks like a lot of he said they said to me. Your info is no more valid than the other guys at this point. I think what Grumpy posted is good data to go by. That is all we can go by if we are choosing a car tire for are bikes.

Steve,

Here's the actual specs on the Avon 300 from Avon. 300/35X18 88H

The load rating is 1234.58 pounds (560 kg) and the speed rating is 130 mph.

The 230 is 130 mph and load rated for 1168.44 pounds (535 kg) according to their website.

The tire is made up of the same casing style and materials as the 230. I guess I would be interested in talking to someone and not mention BH, but just the weight of the bike and potential speed.

Sure as hell not an engineer, but the numbers speak volumes

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
LaMonsterV8 said:
Looks like a lot of he said they said to me. Your info is no more valid than the other guys at this point. I think what Grumpy posted is good data to go by. That is all we can go by if we are choosing a car tire for are bikes.

Steve,

Here's the actual specs on the Avon 300 from Avon. 300/35X18 88H

The load rating is 1234.58 pounds (560 kg) and the speed rating is 130 mph.

The 230 is 130 mph and load rated for 1168.44 pounds (535 kg) according to their website.

The tire is made up of the same casing style and materials as the 230. I guess I would be interested in talking to someone and not mention BH, but just the weight of the bike and potential speed.

Sure as hell not an engineer, but the numbers speak volumes

Tim
I think you should take the time and energy to find out for yourself if you are interested---call Avon tomorrow. They have a 800 number on the website and draw your own conclusions. :capwin:
 

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Avon fitment on Boss Hoss

Hi Dave,

Here is the service bulletin rfrom Avon UK egarding use of tires on the rear of Boss Hoss. Nick Turner was from the European sales office (he is no longer there) and should have forwarded the question to our office in North America since we are much more familiar with the Boss Hoss requirements.

Sukoshi Fahey
National Sales Manager


The following
SERVICE BULLETIN
Regards the usage of the following motorcycle tyre product identified below:

Range Name Tyre Size Product Code
AM42 Venom R 300/35 R18 88V 4952612

This is a RADIAL construction tyre intended for tubeless application on the following 18" diameter motorcycle rim widths;

Range Width
Minimum Rim 10.0 in
Recommended Rim 10.5 in
Maximum Rim 11 in

The tyre carries the following service index: 88V
And is certified to the following speed and load parameters shown below

Certified Speed range Certified Load Range
<=149mph <=1234lb
<=240Kmh <=560Kg



This tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp only, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine. Use on vehicles with power output exceeding 250bhp is an extreme use which results in accelerated tread wear and may result in tread separation.


As previously noted, the tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine, any other use is not recommended, violates the warranty and may result in serious accidents (although no instances have been reported to date).



Peter McNally
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 22nd March 2004

The following
SERVICE BULLETIN
Regards the usage of the following motorcycle tyre product identified below:

Range Name Tyre Size Product Code
AM42 Venom R 300/40 R17 90V 4952712

This is a RADIAL construction tyre intended for tubeless application on the following 18" diameter motorcycle rim widths;

Range Width
Minimum Rim 10.0 in
Recommended Rim 10.5 in
Maximum Rim 11 in

The tyre carries the following service index: 90V
And is certified to the following speed and load parameters shown below

Certified Speed range Certified Load Range
<=149mph <=1322lb
<=240Kmh <=600Kg



This tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp only, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine. Use on vehicles with power output exceeding 250bhp is an extreme use which results in accelerated tread wear and may result in tread separation.


As previously noted, the tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine, any other use is not recommended, violates the warranty and may result in serious accidents (although no instances have been reported to date).




Peter McNally
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 22nd March 2004


The following
SERVICE BULLETIN
Regards the usage of the following motorcycle tyre product identified below:

Range Name Tyre Size Product Code
AM42 Venom R 250/40 R18 81V 4959812

This is a RADIAL construction tyre intended for tubeless application on the following 18" diameter motorcycle rim widths;

Range Width
Minimum Rim 8.50in
Recommended Rim 9.00
Maximum Rim 9.50in

The tyre carries the following service index: 81V
And is certified to the following speed and load parameters shown below

Certified Speed range Certified Load Range
<=149mph <=1019lb
<=240Kmh <=462Kg



This tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp only, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine. Use on vehicles with power output exceeding 250bhp is an extreme use which results in accelerated tread wear and may result in tread separation.


As previously noted, the tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 250bhp, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine, any other use is not recommended, violates the warranty and may result in serious accidents (although no instances have been reported to date).



Leo Smith
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 09 June 2003

The following
SERVICE BULLETIN
Regards the usage of the following motorcycle tyre product identified below:

Range Name Tyre Size Product Code
AM21 Roadrunner 230/60-15 86H 2759012

This is a CROSSPLY construction tyre intended for tubeless application on the following 15" diameter motorcycle rim widths;

Range Width
Minimum Rim 6.25in
Recommended Rim 7.00
Maximum Rim 8.00in

The tyre carries the following service index: 86H
And is certified to the following speed and load parameters shown below

Certified Speed range Certified Load Range
<=130mph <=1169lb
<=210Kmh <=530Kg



This tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 510bhp only, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine. Use on vehicles with power output exceeding 510bhp is an extreme use which results in accelerated tread wear and may result in tread separation.


As previously noted, the tyre is only intended for use on vehicles with a maximum power output of 510bhp, as measured at the crankshaft of the engine, any other use is not recommended, violates the warranty and may result in serious accidents (although no instances have been reported to date).




Leo Smith
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 09 June 2003
 

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I say stick with the stock avon and keep em smokin!!!
 

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Avons

Can I get an AMEN?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
LaMonsterV8 said:
Leo Smith
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 09 June 2003

How about an update that's not two years old. :roll:

Try reading from the bottom to the top! It helps!! :roll:
 

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I am stunned :shock: , but now we have the official statement. Big surprise that from a range from 81V-90V the RADIAL tire is only good for 250hp but the 86H is good for 510hp because its a CROSSPLY. I wonder what the loadratings are good for if there is such a difference.
Peter
 

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Busa Dave said:
LaMonsterV8 said:
Leo Smith
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 09 June 2003

How about an update that's not two years old. :roll:

Try reading from the bottom to the top! It helps!! :roll:
I see it's only a year old my mistake, It looked like you just post the same thing twice so I just went by the last date, no need to be a smart ass about it. :roll:

So I guess nobody here should do anything that's not recommended by the factory or the manufacture then. Maybe that would keep your bike off the trailer and out of the shop so much if you followed your own advice. Yes that was my smart ass remark. ;)
 

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To me there is a limit as to how wide looks good . When I first saw the 230 tire on a Harley I thought to myself , that just looks too wide in proportion to the rest of the bike . Now when I first saw the 230 on a Boss Hoss , I thought that it looked perfectly proportioned and still do . To me , if you go too wide your bike looks out of proportion and is starting to look like a steam roller and probably handles the same . Amen brother , I'll stick with my grooved 230 . Just my 2 cents . Different strokes for different folks .

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
LaMonsterV8 said:
Busa Dave said:
LaMonsterV8 said:
Leo Smith
Motorcycle Product Manager
Monday, 09 June 2003

How about an update that's not two years old. :roll:

Try reading from the bottom to the top! It helps!! :roll:
I see it's only a year old my mistake, It looked like you just post the same thing twice so I just went by the last date, no need to be a smart ass about it. :roll:

So I guess nobody here should do anything that's not recommended by the factory or the manufacture then. Maybe that would keep your bike off the trailer and out of the shop so much if you followed your own advice. Yes that was my smart ass remark. ;)
Rationale behind the Tire issue is simple—it is the only thing between the road and us! I am fortunate enough to be a part of more than one tire development program and am very aware of what tests both non destructive and destructive that go into the design, qualification and manufacture of aircraft tires. Tires for motorcycle and automotive applications are similar and dissimilar for example, automotive tires do not have 22 plies and 300psi of air. Our tires also operate in a much more hospitable environment than aircraft tires and do not have the same operational requirements by orders of magnitude but must still perform within operational designs.

This being said because of what I do the resources available to me in this “tire” matter are considerable and among the best in the world. When modifications are made to my bike, each component being replaced or upgraded is painstakingly researched and the due diligence that is performed before incorporation is considerable. It is understood that 98% of the people do not go to this extreme but people here who know me will verify this. Unfortunately, this is a flaw you might say in my personality as I am driven by performance albeit my motorcycle all the way to my 8 zone HVAC with integrated fresh air system in my house that Carrier Engineering in Syracuse assisted with the design and development of. Conversely, this flaw as some see it is a positive to others as people frequently take advantage of the fact-finding I do to help make their decisions.

I have no problem with being challenged on the information I provide but it is very much appreciated and expected to a certain degree that it be accurate, current and complete so to speak. No one is perfect as I am well aware but off the cuff, uninformed opinions on what tires are suitable for our bikes that is diametrically opposed to the positions of the manufacturer as well as some of the best design minds in the industry beg this question: “Do You Feel Lucky”? I for one do not rely on luck as my principle means of keeping my bike upright at 140mph but I do like it as it can’t hurt!!

When my bike “goes on the trailer”, it is because of a part failure some of which can be directly attributed to modifications made with other than “stock” parts or the increase in HP and traction. In addition, I did not post that information—that was from the Tire Manufacturer Avon.

Everyone Ride Safe—Well at least Safe As You Can!!!! :D :cop2:
 

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I think Sukoshi's post says it all. The 230 Avon will be my tire of choice until I see a tire rated to take at least 500 HP. I probably am developing 450+ HP with my stroker and won't change until I see a factory rating which gives me peace of mind...Joe
 

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And the beat goes on....

And the beat goes on.... CHees, which oil? which color paint? which tires?? hahahahah. I gotta laugh respectfully of course.
Here is my nickel thought on rear tires... Because of ligitation factor, the tire manufacturers want to stay well withing the safety factor. They build in some kind of buffer of maybe 20-30% so the 250 or larger Avon may indeed be oki doki to use on my bike??? If the manufacture says max of 250hp motor for that particular tire, then does this mean that it is unsafe with a motor that has 251 hp or just 1hp more ??. Na, I don't think so and I bet that the tire manufactures will NEVER tell anyone what their buffer factor is in the tire rating. Nope, they are afraid of a law suit just in case!
And consider this point too. Some of us DONT do burn outs or really stress the rear tire that much. For these individuals then it seems to me that a larger Avon (250 or larger) would be oki doki!
Also consider the car tire vs the so called rounded motorcycle tire. FIrst of all the BH is not a canyon carver (only 29' max lean) so why get a motorcycle tire for it? I was looking at my 250 Avon and compariing it to a mounted car tire/rim (tire was 225/70) and they both almost look identical as far as curvature in the center of the tire. CHees, this is another no brainer to me. I am definately going for the Sumitomo car tire next time around cause I like the looks better than the motorcycle tire AND it appears to be a better and safer rain type tire!
Sometimes what seems logical on paper is not so in reality!
Milos
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: And the beat goes on....

barbarianthemadserb said:
And the beat goes on.... CHees, which oil? which color paint? which tires?? hahahahah. I gotta laugh respectfully of course.
Here is my nickel thought on rear tires... Because of ligitation factor, the tire manufacturers want to stay well withing the safety factor. They build in some kind of buffer of maybe 20-30% so the 250 or larger Avon may indeed be oki doki to use on my bike??? If the manufacture says max of 250hp motor for that particular tire, then does this mean that it is unsafe with a motor that has 251 hp or just 1hp more ??. Na, I don't think so and I bet that the tire manufactures will NEVER tell anyone what their buffer factor is in the tire rating. Nope, they are afraid of a law suit just in case!
And consider this point too. Some of us DONT do burn outs or really stress the rear tire that much. For these individuals then it seems to me that a larger Avon (250 or larger) would be oki doki!
Also consider the car tire vs the so called rounded motorcycle tire. FIrst of all the BH is not a canyon carver (only 29' max lean) so why get a motorcycle tire for it? I was looking at my 250 Avon and compariing it to a mounted car tire/rim (tire was 225/70) and they both almost look identical as far as curvature in the center of the tire. CHees, this is another no brainer to me. I am definately going for the Sumitomo car tire next time around cause I like the looks better than the motorcycle tire AND it appears to be a better and safer rain type tire!
Sometimes what seems logical on paper is not so in reality!
Milos


For those of you that have a good relationship with your Dealer give them a call tomorrow and ask them about the email that went out to the Dealers from Boss Hoss regarding some "incidents" with the large motorcycle tires. Please post what you find out but I won't say I told you so--Ok so I will.

Cheers :beer3:
 

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So, has anyone talked to there dealer yet to see whats up with the 300 tire??????? Steve
 

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The load rating is only weight but does not take into account the forces generated upon acceleration and decceleration. If avon does not give us their impramatur to use the tire in over 250 hp at the crank applications...I'll pass, thank you very much. I'm probably in the 450+ range with my modified stroker.
Thanks for the research Dave and I'll stick with the "boring" 230 until I get the go ahead from the manufacturer. Why on earth would they tell us we shouldn't use it in our application if they built the tire for our stresses?...No thanks...Joe
 

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What ply do these tires usally have? Some car tires have thinner sidewalls than others, which may give a smoother or rougher ride with, say 30 psi.
 
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